We have agreed to agree.
We are now subject to a barrage of positive media pressure on the Indo-US nuclear deal. There is the sound of the Champagne corks popping... etc... even on the disreputable forum, the disreputable are celebrating a sense of victory.And yes I do agree that we have... a.. well.... a sense of victory.
Yes... as the wiser sages amongst you have surmised from the guarded tone of Sri. Narayanan's comments and the absence of acts of self-immolation among the NPA... a great many questions remain unanswered.
Thanks to the tireless efforts of our negotiating team, and the efforts of the Bush Administration's lawyers, we have we now have a piece of paper that says "we have agreed to agree".
Please understand I mean no disrespect to those in India who fought hard to get it to this level. After the utter fiasco that followed the NPA's breast-beating and irresponsible behaviour in the media, there was a lot of pressure on both sides to make it look like we still had an agreement. The cumulative prestige and trust accrued by interlocuters on both sides over decades was nearly destroyed by the NPA antics. The "Agreement to Agree" has saved us from utter catastrophe, but we still stand periliously close to the edge.
For reference now let us look at the balance sheet:
India needs this agreement because it seeks an energy solution. India's scientists have laboured hard for half-a-century to find an evironmentally safe, proliferation proof system of utilising nuclear fuels to generate energy. The current desire - given rising concerns about global warming - is about making it sustainable in the Indian context. That is where the entire effort of DAE has been concentrated. To make this sustainable, India needs to do two things, first it needs to interact with the global market in nuclear fuels and technologies to buy what it needs, and secondly it needs to create the necessary information control structure to preserve its intellectual property.
The United States (and the western world) is not mentally prepared to see India implement an energy solution based on nuclear technology. Nuclear energy technology in the US is very primitive and the fact that India - a country of 200 million starving people - could make such high technology - makes the US feel very insecure. At the heart of America's insecurity is a pervasive fear, that someone will do to the US what the US did to Japan at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but this is simply an peculiarity of the US. Over the past 300 years, the Western world in general has gotten used to being on top of the global technological order.
300 years ago, India and China used to be the dominant economies of Asia. All records of history in these places suggest that was the "natural state" of the world. However the burst of industrial activity in Europe that followed the exploitation of resources on the American landmass changed all that. Europe was able to pull itself out of the Dark Ages and build a foundation of technological progress that allowed it to surpass India and China as the global center for innovation. The populations of Europe proved unable to handle such rapid change, and horrible wars occured with sickening frequency. These wars debiliated the European economy and over time Europe lost its top position to the United States of America.
We can endlessly debate the causes, but for the last 300 years, the economies of China and India were depressed. In this state they could not support innovation and as a result they heamorraged intellectual property to the more developed Western economies. This is no longer the case, after half a century of guided economic growth, Indian and Chinese economies are nearing a full recovery and capital reserves are reaching a stage where large amounts of technology innovation can be sustained. This is the "natural state" of things, the economies of India and China cannot remain reliant on imported technologies if they are to grow.
Unfortunately the manner in which Western grand narratives have been structured, Asia is seen as a very passive terms. The Western narrative rejects the notion of an active Asia. Perhaps this has the benifit of filling Westerners with a sense of confidence or even possibly a positive enthusiasm to do something, but it also leaves the average Western mind unprepared for any form of activity in Asia.
The West is completely unprepared for an Asia that no longer simply passively accepts Western dominance over high technology. In the absence of any real thinking on the issue a deep seated hostility is taking hold. While the US has rather peculiar concerns, other countries especially those that are not too far from the bottom of the global technology ladder, the "middle countries" if I can call them that, are sensing an imminent loss of status. This kind of feeling is more likely to make them do ... well... unreasonable things. With luck however we may be able to contain this matter in the NSG, but I am not holding my breath here.
The NPA for their part have assidiously courted these "middle countries", wherever possible they have offered up the suggestion that these countries would become disaffected with the US and its sudden change in posture. They have implicitly held out the possibility that these countries might become unreceptive to US goals on nuclear proliferation if India is given a special pass.
I am unsure of the merits of such an approach by the NPA. Courting this kind of behaviour could easily be misinterpreted as encouraging it. At the very least being supportive of this kind of thinking could artificially prolong the endurance of negative views about the technological rise of Asia.
I sincerely doubt if any of the current NPA savants actually grasp things as I have just laid them out. A reformation of the NPA clergy is long overdue. In Indo-US ties, this is the next real milestone.
posted by maverick @ 6:29 AM
23 Comments:
hi m
[[The "Agreement to Agree" has saved us from utter catastrophe, but we still stand periliously close to the edge.
]]
1)has any govt. any backup plan to save us from falling over the edge?
Anonymous,
In an earlier post, I had said there is considerable pressure inside the US to have this agreement go through. If it does not, then President Bush himself will have that failure on his head.
Whatever happens in the course of the trade ... well that can't be predicted but if from the outset we look like things aren't going to go well... then people aren't going to be interested. If people are not interested, no one is going to come to you and ask you/pay you for your exclusive access to the Indian market... you follow my drift?
Without an agreement to agree... well there would be no reason for anyone to take President Bush seriously. Not even American industrial leaders would see him as a sensible person. We had to agree to agree, to not do so would have damaged the deal and our relationship with the President himself.
The only caveat was that the agreement to agree cannot come at GoI's political cost. The "non-renegotiations" were an attempt to diminish the political cost to the GoI and now a positive media frenzy has been induced by the US to aid that.
I do not know that is or isn't a back up plan. Again, as I have said before, I don't want to know.
However given that despite the NPA induced detour, things are going largely per the July 18th agreement, a phase of self-congratulations is not out of place.
He signed the July 18th deal, and
his people that created the euphoria in industry. The NPA that railed against the deal are in his pocket, and the media that are now yapping about this success are also on his payroll. President Bush has through deft maneouvering saved himself from... himself.
The implicit message for India appears to be - do not try to cut deals with anyone besides designated representatives President Bush himself.
I have no problems with doing exactly this as long as He is willing to accomodate our interest, I cannot see why we will not accomodate his own.
It is however a matter for independent evaluation whether he can actually accomodate our interests.
hi m,
your commentary suggests that Bush is not only president of USA but also of India? Who the heck is he that we have to sell ourselves in order to be on his right side?
Spineless men of new delhi? bootlickers to the core!!
other wise damaged the relationshpip with the US president. where all this crap has come into the our govt. mindset.
shameful!!!
Anonymous,
Such strong sentiment is out of place here.
President Bush is the potentate of a foreign land. International relations is about mutual accomodation, he accomodates us, we accomodate him. On such accomodation trust is built and on trust trade and economy is based. From the growth of trade and economy, prosperity flowers.
I wish I could say with some honesty there was something more to international relations, but I can't. I am a gandhian at heart, I take this "Satyameva Jayate" stuff very seriously.
As Sri. Narayanan suggests it is a time to seem satisfied. I agree with him, there is no sense in burning our bridges to the United States.
Some would argue that such a close relationship with the "Bush brand" is unhealthy. Who knows given the unpredictable nature of personality politics, they may be right.
However if we spurn someone with the name "Bush", no American will want to shake hands with us. This part of it, is as much a test of us, as it is of the Americans.
What we give, well... that depends on what we get.
What we seem willing to give... well that depends on what we seem likely to get.
At this point, we have gotten a piece of paper that says they are keen to sound agreeable, and so it is only fitting that we seem agreeable.
To do otherwise would be to break the spirit of July 18th.
What happens as time progresses however, well that is another matter.
In my post I have outlined the real goal here in the near term - a reformation of the NPA, till such time that it happens, one cannot hope for serious gains, despite whatever a pliant media can be induced to say.
hi m,
we are going around in circles. Look at the fact sheet which both the govt's. have brought out. Even in the agreement to agree has disagreements. this is reflected in the fact that both the govt have brought out separate fact sheets! It is also a chanakian strategy that our fact sheet does not mention explicitly 123 agreement!
In every fora public or private US govt has *reiterated* the primacy of Hyde act over July/18 agreement!
Then where does all this lead to. PM kept mentioning that proof of pudding in the eating! The *Hyde Act* is the proof. Now tell me how one cannot accuse the present GOI of kneeling down to US interests!
of course strong sentiments!
hi m,
i will not like to damage my relationship with you over this. As N.Burns & MMS say we have right to stick to our respective positions.Nevertheless if you feel, edit all that has been written by me earlier. Hope that helps!
My dear Anonymous,
We are in no danger of ruining our relationship.
I am perfectly happy to de-emphasise the July 18th agreement if that is what the President of the US wants. However the flip side is that I can't stop people from saying that they feel betrayed by this.
These are all games people play in the international arena.
You know we have some 100 billion dollars in forex reserves. It is all going to be worth as much as toilet paper soon thanks to the way the US dollar is dropping.
Ofcourse if we cannot buy anything we want with those dollars, then they are already worth less than toilet paper aren't they?
We might as well sell them now, if we aren't going to be able to buy what we want.
hi m ,
very insightful arguments! sometimes emotions clouds my judgement! this nuclear deal it has generated tremendous heat within our country.
hi m,
kindly let us know all:- why are you so cool as a cucumber when it comes to India-US nuclear deal? It has generated widespread anger,allegations of sellout are commonly heard from inside & outside the establishment. It has very little support, but you have been an *ICE man*. why is that so?
Dear friends,
Did you all grasp what I was saying about the 100 Billion dollars in GoI's coffers?
That money is useless if we can't buy anything with it. The first chance we get we will be inclined to sell it.
Once it is sold, we will have suffered a tremendous loss because we will have given away for free what hundreds of millions of man hours by DOOs has gained us.
The brave Chinese, the "Rulers of Asia" will be worse off because we will have diminished the net value of their dollar holdings. What billions of man hours by sex slaves and political prisoners have earned will be worth next to nothing.
However our American friends will be the worst off. The cost of imports will rise and their economy will grind to a complete halt. The whole nation will have to file for bankruptcy.
Some of our American interlocuters may have an unrealistic appraisal of the Hyde act and its implications. They do not understand the precarious position that the US is in globally.
Their terrible national deficit and the horrific state of their lack of control over energy prices are something the Americans cannot wish away.
There are at least 100 billion reasons for this deal to go through precisely on India's terms.
Welcome my dear friends to the politics of reality - the politics of hard power.
hi m,
There is a very good corollary
In mahabharat Lord Krishna was sent as an emissary on the behalf of the pandavas to negotiate with evil duryodhana. At that time Lord kirhsna demanded only 5 villages. But the evil duryodhana insulted Lork krishna by threatning to imprison him. Lord krishna has to display the power at that time. But Duryodhana said that he will not concede an inch so much so that he was not ready to part with territory equalling the tip of a needle! What happened next, war ensued. Similarily our MMS went to Washington DC demanding that only 50 bombs be allowed per year in exchange for civilian nuclear energy. In return the US govt insulted him by passing the Hyde act! At that time there was tremendous consternation within the pandava camp in neogtiating with the kauravas. Similar situation exists today! Of course our govt. are full of very clever people. What should matter us most
1)What has MMS/MKN brough back from Washington DC?
2)Tomorrow when civilian nuclear deal becomes a reality, US govt. will try there usual tricks of cap,rollback,eliminate! But there are pinpricks,picking on us which we will have to bear for some more decades.
That's why so many Indians are dead agains negotiation with the US govt.
Anonymous,
We are holding an "agreement to agree".
If the Hyde act was the final position on all things American where was the need to get into this "agreement to agree" from?
If the Hyde act was so important we would be holding an agreement to disagree today instead of the agreement to agree.
It appears that the Bush adminstration has cleared up any misunderstanding that might have arisen as a result of the Hyde act.
America's laws are for Americans - not Indians.
Please do understand that we are now talking about a substantial fraction of technological innovation shifting to India and China and no western nation, especially not a nation that has been on the top of the global technology ladder for the last 300 years is going to welcome that.
This jekyll and hyde act that we have seen is going to be a constant feature of American (and other western) policymaking. We need to get used to it.
hi m,
agreed, we as laymen sitting around on chat sites should not chatter too much. As you had said before if young at heart do that, then we will become another pakistan where the govt. has no control over its citizens.
We all pray that our negotiatiors achieve the goals that they had set before departing for Washington DC.
1)Many of us young cannot forget what US did to us in form PL-480,USS enterprise intruding into our waters, and last but not the least what they did to us in kargil.In India there is so much of mistrust for the US govt. that it impossible to believe that US govt have finally changed there heart when it comes to India. They will betray us again! That is in the US govt. blood !
Anonymous,
Betrayal is a part of human nature.
So I honestly don't see where the idea that one can blindly trust anyone comes from.
There is a measure of trust we repose in our peers but we must be sensitive to their limitations also. If we push the agenda of trust beyond their limitations, then we are the fools and they are merely protecting themselves.
I have told you what I think the limitation is. There is a genuine lack of acceptance of the fact that the centres of innovation will shift east as the decades pass.
All other problems, eg. disputes over sharing resources like nuclear fuels, oil and natural gas etc... are all increasingly becoming hostage to this lack of acceptance.
People in the West want to invest in the Eastern economies but they do not want to share any resources with the East.
Do you understand?
The American is happy to buy into a hedge fund that invests in Asia because those economies are doing well, but the American prefers to put petrol into his gas-guzzling Hummer SUV so that he can drive to McDonalds twenty feet from his house instead of having it be available to run to a generator set that powers a school in India or China.
He simply does not grasp that his hedge fund will not do well if the school in India and China does not run.
The Americans do not grasp that for them to remain on top, Asia will have to remain on the bottom in a *functioning* state. This is mostly a product of ignorance.
That ignorance has to lift, which is why I say that the next logical step is to initiate a reform of the NPA.
hi m
i do not know whether it is appropriate for me to continue since you have written so much, but kindly can you clarify:- i wish i could point to the website where it was written. Any way summarising what was written there(think it was a blogspot). The author there suggested that
1) Since India would have to join USA in sanctioning Iran, it ended up becoming a proxy state of the USA
2) Also India stood to lose a state (Iran) that could be used for containing pakistan!
3) all the time when USA was importing heavy water from India.
The author said it doubly gained with the India-US engagement.
4) My assesment is our National security managers are no dumb guys.
5)Kindly can you clarify this. Also all previous debates with you on this issue stands closed.
Hello Anonymous,
Please do continue if you query has not been answered.
I don't see how we have "lost" Iran as a counter-balance to Pakistan or even as a potential energy supplier.
In my understanding the US is keen to put pressure on the Iranian regime and to that end securing some sort of "approval" from India is useful, but in substance there is little India can do to help.
If any invasion of Iran is to be staged, the US will need Pakistan and Saudi Arabia's assistance, not Indian assistance. For me personally, it is difficult to see how either Pakistan or Saudi Arabia will sign off on supporting a US invasion of Iran given the peculiar circumstances in these countries.
As long as the possibility of leverage over Pakistan remains through intervention in its internal affairs, the Iranian position vis-a-vis Pakistan will be largely unchanged. A similar strategy applies in Saudi Arabia.
Could Iran foment trouble in India as part of a strategy to punish India for allegedly abandoning it? yes it could. Similarly the US could also make trouble in India for spurning the nuclear deal it has offered. However this kind of behaviour by either the US or Iran is unlikely to make the job of negotiations on energy issues with India any easier as the Indians will deeply resent anything of this nature. Iranian and American long term interests lie in ensuring access to the Indian energy market.
The heavy water export to the US is part of a wider fabric of nuclear trade between India and the US. The current obstacle to the expansion of this trade in the US is the enriched uranium fueled reactor people. These people dominate the US nuclear energy community as enriched uranium reactors were used in most of the US military's power solutions.
Despite the fact that the US is forced to import uranium enrichment technology from Europe today, there is no realisation of the pitfalls of the enriched uranium reactors. There is no appreciation of the fact that it is technologically much more challenging to fuel Breeder reactors with spent fuel rods from enriched uranium reactors than spent fuel rods from PHWRs.
As the NPA readily inform us that that is considerable reluctance in the US to shift to the more environmentally friendly and proliferation proof PHWR technology used in India and in a more holistic analysis the US import of heavy water is a step in the right direction. It is quite literally the first a very long series of steps the US is going to have to take to foster a deeper thought process on sustainable resource use.
energy need being met is a fraud afterthought put in by masters of traitor manmohan singh.
may 9th , 2007.
This ( rejected thrice by the public in general election) prime minister(installed at american behest) manmaohan singh is trying to enter parliament again through vack door-he filled nomination through assam with help of sonai gandhi congress(of whoioch he is not a leader or person of any singificance).
such is the democracy we live in.
i thought democracy meansd people electing the party and primeminister to be elected through that elelctable persons.
but as for american definigitn of democracy like in stooge s in afggansitana nd iraq we have an americana tooge who doe snot need to boyther wabout indian opinion because he has not been s-chosen by the indian people for the post but isntalled by a foreing country to make idnia run for foreing.es nbenefit.
and we are celebrating 150 yrs of what?
return of the company and corporate again?(not called ast or west india company this time but same nevertheless)..
the media now decries that the polling rate in india is rapdly going down that in india where the people have always been enthusiatic to vote. doe sit not occur to media that pepel are now refusing to rubber stamp the primeminsiter sna his cabinet when the people have already rejected such lots and still unelectable person gets chosen as prime minister of foren minister(jaswant singh) with no popular support anbut only because angloamerican agents in india want that to be. For several general elections the people have rejected the so called loiberalization and wasnhington consensus policy of govet. of india but each time new govt is elected the media astrats telling that economic and foreing policy msut not change even though people have overwhelmingly voted agasint that.
media brings irraneous cause for defeat of incumbent govt liek communalism and all russbih but never mentions that people have thrwon that american dictated policy.
tsuch is the genesisi of indian eelctorate disilluionment with voting -all due to corruption of media and jourtnalists along with the biusisness class of india(thse days traitor FICI is organising more conferences than the govt. of india for interministerial meetings!.
How india is being treacherously enslaved by angloamerican agents likes of (unelectable and defeated in democratic election ) this pm manmohan singh and the english media inside india.
a great misconception is that so caled liberalization and globalization was brought to india by this manmohan singh. In fact soon after victory in iraq war in febraury 1991 the bush no. first declared a new world order in which he explicitly said that he will open up the world for american business. In fact his trade seccratary immeditealy annomnuced that she will make sure that america open up the thighs of thrid world countries as a slwoly and surely to american business(true analogy to a rape)-that was given the name liberalization and globalization for which the british and americans had been working since 1986. What was left for america to do was install maleable stooges inside the thrirld world countries. escpeally those types who are unelctable and have no mass base of their own-- in other words who are not elelctable democratically but installed from above through media and other manipulations.
this manmohan singh in india fulffiled that criteria of being unliked and unelctable insignificant person who was willing to act on arder of his american masters -if they had asked him to turn communist he would have done that.it isa sad refletion on india that since 1986 we have has only weaklings as our prime minsiters and fincnace minsiters not to speak of non mentionable defence misnters who made sure that indians nuclear and missle programme got stuck at 1986.
march, 2007
--this unelectable (and three times defeated in democratic elections ) so called prime minieter manmohan singh is a blot on the face of democratic india. he is there aonbly because the anglosaxon powers wanted him there instead of sonia gandhi(who wouldnot have been that maelelable to english speaking world-master race as this stooge manmohan is). this manmohan singh has been very unpopular in democratic election losing even when there was a wave in favour of congress. he has not even let pujab select his d=congress pqarty for assembley election in 2007 so mucn unpol;ular he is. but he is very popular amnost the anglosaxon media and govert. therefore he is popular amonst the english media and all the angloamerican stooges theat you find in any thirld world aka allwi,Ahmed Chalabi(of iraqi traitor fame) mubarak types.
manmohan singh is a yeltsin of india-very pouilar amonst enemies of india exactly because he has sold india cheap to thse amngloamericn interests.
now the idito indian elites are pro=jecting this imbecile manmohan singh as some intelecutal -whoever heard of e=an economist as a scintist or intellectual espceaccilly the economist who foolws voddo ecnomy of chaicago school?
even granted someone is educated what thse iditot elites of india are saying is that a geek with =zero personality and nil oratory power with no public fowwlloping should become a leader of 1.2billion people without being unecleted or despite losing elelction in genral elelctions. three times.
ofcourse with no personality and a rote knowledge of chicago peudo-economics this imposter on indian poilctical scene is a cancer to the very name of democracy and decency.he is very very dishonet-he lies at he drop of hat (indo american nuyclear pact, indians defence procurements, agricultrual disaster inside india -which caters to 75% of indian population0.), this manamohsn singh has papuperized india and weakned the idnian defence forces.
During the period from 1992 onwards the indian defence forces has weakened to one third of its ablity during this traitors helm at finance minsitry and primeministreship.
this fellow has made indian air force virtually a camel air force.manmohan singh is responsible for tracherous indo nuclear pact and for dragging his feet over delay procumrent to indian air force jsut to please his real masters the angloamerican interests.
22.4.2007--"JE Menon wrote:
Despite the mountain of criticism our babus in the MEA take, overall I believe they have done a pretty good job over the past two decades in particular.
I don't know who has said what on this issue w.r.t. the babus, but speaking for myself, I trust the babus. It's the PM I don't trust.
Sorry to say this so bluntly, but MMS is a hell of a wishy-washy, weak-seeming fellow, and I think there are solid grounds, based on the publicly available record alone, to think that he would have bungled massively by now, if not for the senior bureaucrats/brass in the areas involved. To wit:
* If not for the vociferous public statements by General JJ Singh opposing the plan, MMS would have given away Siachen, as a "goodwill gesture" to Pakistan (under US pressure of course). Thank God for the generals and the military brass.
* If not for the vociferous public statements by AK (and many others, including President AK and the BJP), MMS would have long ago signed up to a lousy nuke deal very damaging to India's long term national interests."
"I am not saying MMS is a traitor (such claims are nonsense), but that he is a dreamer with his head in the clouds, and not in touch with the vicious real world. He is a bloody economist, and he thinks that economic policy is the be-all and end-all of national security. It seems he genuinely believes that who controls Siachen is irrelevant, nuclear weapons are irrelevant (maybe he himself is a sincerely-believing NPA). I am still furious at him for (apparently) authorising the trashing/bad-mouthing of Indian nuclear scientists for the last two years. The two AKs (Anil Kakodkar and Abdul Kalam) have been profiles in courage; Shekhar Gupta and his DIM (Dork Indian Media) fellow-travellers have been disgraceful."
may 2nd ,1998.
Manmohan singh,former finance minister, what is he, if not clear by now with his previous anti-india policy had been clear ,then it should become cristal clear with his recent questioning in Rajya Sabha on 15 th dec. The prime minister was giving statement on nuclear talk with america(which he should not have entered into with america anyway). As Indian policy has been defence and incoherent,He was telling about minimum nuclear deterent that India must have to which this manmohan singh asked what is the limit of minimum nuclear deterence. As if to open all the cards and play into america's hand, Manmohan singh was playing part of American interest' agent. It is the same manmohan singh who some congressmen are saying is more keen than the govt. to get lateset Insurance and patent bill( to sell out to anglo-american interest)passed by the Parliament. In stead of waiting for world situation till 2002(which is bound to change) Manmohan singh is keen to see that America's interest is served quickly. Tragedy is that this sort of person, and likes of Yaswant singh-foreign minister-who can not win a single mandate from people in democratic election,are the people made to hold important ofiice asnd ofcourse Anglo-americans like that because deviod of public support and democratic mandate, such peoples are ideal agents of anglo-American interest. All those so called reform under manmohan singh -which was supposed to do exactly opposte of what it did(example of latin america was already there) is still beieng pursued on the same logic under this American spy. Even the lesson of east asia has not been learnt. Those who talk big and bostfill in India must remember that far from being some economic power , If pursuing the same sell out of India, the country will take 50 years to reach the prosprity enjoyed by brazilian elite but will have debt and total loss of sovernity in economic and foriegn policy with in 10 years.
By the way in response to American spys'(manmohan singh)question as to what constitute Minimum nuclear deterence for India the Prime minister should have assured that it would be such that in case of attack, as in bagdad, by the anglo-American goons,India will have effective nuclear and convention weopon to hit at targets in england and united states. Only ,and then only will have India effective deterence.
In last 16 years India has had no strong leaderhip or
govt; and the
result (for those who have brain to see) is for all to see-The foreigners in
name of liberalization and globalization have come back with vehemence and
are exploiting india and other countries. If England can sell rotten, viral
infected british meat in name of support british products; if america
supports her own rubbish car in name of buy american then what right have
these two countries have to stop developing countries supporting their much
better products.Even country like Germany with export per annum of !7oo
billion marks is in recession-lesson- the nation lives by domestic product and
domestic consumption. Even Germans are realizing that so called globilization
is a big sham and rightly so.It is propaganda by anglosaxon countries to flood
and control world market and world ecomy. England and america does
protectionism in own country but has pushed this liberalization concept for
others to follow so that they can sell their rubbish products to others. In
fact england and amerirca make such low grade but high priced products that
nobody will willingly buy them except themselves like english people buying
viral-infected british meat. But by blackmail they force others to buy their
rubbish. Saudi arabia ,their stooge, is not allowed to buy from germany or
France but only from these anglosaxons parasites for her arms. All countries
of europe and rest of world should bycott british and american product-they
are crubbish and pricy.That is why thirld world needs to strengthen their
defence-military and counter intelligence -to counter these anglosaxon hyenas
And it is england and america which is the real danger to
India and thirld world. This not western attack it is anglo-saxon attack.
Others should understand who the real enemy is and unite themselves to
counter this mence from anglo-saxons, India should make atomic weopons and
it should be employed in long rang missiles to counter these menace. And
pakistan should also be encouraged to go nuclear. American tactics is to not
allow anyone else strong otherwise others would not succumb to american
goons(or more precise anglosaxon goons). Look at how gulf crisis is always
kept on boil on one pretext or another. One thing more-like in all defeated
ar demoralized countries india has a lot of enemy agents. one such is this
Subramaium Swamy who is an american agent and is ofcourse a very wretched
sort of creyture.(you can not call him a man or politician).
So know who your enemies
are and who are their victims-make a common cause to defeat the wretched
enemy.even small country like vietnam could do that.
JUne 1998.
Why is India so keen to sign rubbish discriminating treaty?_
Before the govt. of india and the self respect lacking elite of
India start any seroious discussion with anybody(more so with india's enemy
like u.s.a.)on nuclear treaty ,it must declare what it has in mind and
ask for peoples' mandate in way of refrendrum.After all in u.s.a. the presidents have been elected on hawkish pro-nuclear
programme and even a third rate country like u.k. had elected three times her prime minister
on pro-nuclear issue. These same west nations preach others to be pacifists. If it was good enough
for them then it is good enough for India to ask her people directly on such a matter of national security.
Foreign policy is not done on basis of personal friendship.Who is this Jaswant singh to talk about our nuclear disarmament?
Those who talk of economic benefit are eluding themselves.America want to unarm India and others
exactly so that it can impose his exploitative(anglo-saxon and not western)economy.In that model of
anglo-saxon econmy lies this basic principle-Support your own profit(swadeshi) and take from other countries the
goods at minimum price.That is why they support theier own rotten ,viral infecxted beef(with no self of foreign meat);
not buy Japenese cars unless manufactured in their country. That is also why imf is very keen to devalue others currency so that these anglosaxpons country can buy foreign goods cheap and pay little for it.
Todays' world is full of economic ruins by those who kissed the poisoned hands of america and u.k.Remember India did have very healthy trade
balance with west before colonization not by selling much but by selling at high price.So signing nuclear treaty against Indian interest
would for ever enslave India to tose countries like usa and u.k. who have always been anti-india. Not that they like pakistan or for that matter any europen country
. This is all anglo-american plot to take over the world. Unless India and others realize it and act accordingly, they are in for long duration of slavery.
This not an alarmist scenerio, it is the real picture and Indians are kidding themselves if they
think india has a single friend unless herself.Do you so relationship to
even your cousins if they are powerless and thus poor? We ar not even their cousin.
People of India must demand refrendum on this secretive treacherous talk.
may ,1998.
Why so much apology
Why so much apology and attempts toe be in good books of enemies by
The Indian Prime Minister Mr. Vajpayee in his explanation in the Parliament?
What he should have said,he said exactly opposite. It is a known fact-and
escepeially known by utterances of opposition leaders and testaments of former
President of India- that the opposition party(both congress and janta) had no guts to
go ahead with the test and the time was running out because of increasing subjugation
of India on econimic matters in the hands of foreign and often enemy hands.Insted
This P.M. gives credit to those gutsless partyeven to Mulam singh Yadav during
whose tenure the The Indian Army was at point of revolt.Instead of declaring
these oppostion leaders as traitors and anti-nationals(which they are) this B.j.p.
leader gives them credit for nuclear preparedness ,which is rubbish.
And why give address in english? Most of Indians understand hindi movies?
If some insist on being given translation then let us have Hindi translators.
It will give more job to hindi knowing people. In fact this english press
in India and english press abroad are our main enemies.
Nuclear test was
neede firstly because then there will never be another gulf-war like situation and even if comes
the result will be very opposite of what happened in gulf war.Secondly also
to give sense of pide and honour among thirld world and not only India.
Remember that it is the same bastard b.b.c. and anglo-american media who
led a propaganda for nuclear armament of britain and for american missiles in britain.The same british gave a overwhelming
support to their p.m.when she said in '82 that she will be ready to bomb soviet union.Forget
the fact that britan was a mouse campared with soviet power.But that irrational utterance got
her popularity soaring and media ensured that the small opposition was
virtualyy eliminated.Not only micheal foot but also kinnock was made villain.this present british p.m. is
more right wing than any right extemist party in India and he had to flex his musles(on back of americans) in gulf.If
it is all right for a third rate country like britain to flex muslcle then why not for India? Do not
underestimate duplicity of shopkeepers, race like english-with out history,class culture or taste.They
through their british agents(and that includes all british and english language media )they make
foreign and domestic and economic policy of america and through america of the world. They destroyed Russia
with false promise of so called free market so that they can sell drugs(alcohol and cigattetes) to starving russians. Suddenly
they feel campasion for the poor of india who might have had the money spent on nuclear bomb? When did they
ever care about their own poors who have always been crimanalized . No this
rubbish must be stopped.In argument of britain getting borrowed american nuclear bomb it
was said by the same media the even the huge money spent is worh while because even 10 times more
spending on conventional weapon is not equivalent to one nuclear bomb.
The same is true of India. This must be understood clearly and said clearly-
The biggest enemy of India(and for that matter of all non anglo-american race)is england and america.
In fact India must make a military pact with China and try to get rid of anglo-american influence
out of asia.For that it frst needs to get rid of anglo-american influence in India-typically shown by
a parasite class reprented by english publications in India.These enlish papers in India represent a class cosiderde cooli or shudra by thir masres-anglo-americans. .Nuclear test was also necessary
to make India aware of danger she has been put by succesive govt.s since ,91. in name of liberalition.
If India had been that fully so called liberalized(in favour of british who even sell their viral infected meat in name of supporting british products)
Then India today would have been much more demoralized and suppliant to ever dare pursue any independent policy let alone testing a nuclear bomb and
making herself a nuclear power !
November 1998.
The very day Indian Prime minister was telling to a rally that partrial lifting of u.s. sanctions was an indication that america and other countries are realizing and understanding India's position , america imposed fresh sanctions against India. The very day Atal bihari Vajpaye was speaking of america's understanding of India's concern against terrorism(after math of american strike against Taliban group);soon america was helping pakistan.The very week that america was telling ,without agenda,India to not only abandon nuclear weopon and allow american inspectors to check on India's nuclear plants(ala iraq) -the same week america gave to britain cruise missiles capable of being launched from ships-hence a weopon of aggression. That delivery of cruse missile was greeted with pride and jubiliation in america and britain-the two countries pushing and harassing others most for total disarmment. Who are the Indian leaderes cheating if not Indians and themselves. Do they not realize that Kasmir problem and previos Punjab problem has been orchestrated by america and britain in collaboration with Pakistan? Ofcourse america actively supports terrorism against india and many other countries. It is Indias' fault if she does not realize it and take active step against american and british interest in India. It is all the more imperative that India must develop nuclear weopon able to be delivered at least 20 thousand kilometers.As for globalization. Then can these English suckers(all english newspapers and anglo-american agaents) explain why japan and east asian countreis who produce more than america and england(who are traders in protected markets only)
has gone down in stock market when american and english stock markets have boomed since end of gulf war? If bombay market is supposed to respond to internation trend then why are english and american markets booming in face of world wide recession? Or is not there inverse relarionship between prosperity of anglosaxon(america and england) countries and the rest of the World as it would be if one recognizes exploitative and destructive influence of anglosaxon race on the whole of World and not only on thirld world?After gulf war the english and america economy,esp. Stock market boomed because this parasitic anglosaxon race got convinced that no matter what it does ,nobody is going to say or do anything thanks to english propaganda machinery. can one explain how this u.s.and england want a change in head of government in Irak (Saddam hussein nad Malasian Prime minister understand anglosaxon race very well) when the same anglosaxon race was pushing for mad Boris yeltins to bombard Russian parliament,call for hastily made constitution changes(with out discussion and only to give absolute power to one man-a man who was and is anglosaxon stooge)in a referendem-that too hastily called.
_ Why is India so keen to sign rubbish discriminating treaty?_
Before the govt. of india and the self respect lacking elite of
India start any seroious discussion with anybody(more so with india's enemy
like u.s.a.)on nuclear treaty ,it must declare what it has in mind and
ask for peoples' mandate in way of refrendrum.After all in u.s.a. the presidents have been elected on hawkish pro-nuclear
programme and even a third rate country like u.k. had elected three times her prime minister
on pro-nuclear issue. These same west nations preach others to be pacifists. If it was good enough
for them then it is good enough for India to ask her people directly on such a matter of national security.
Foreign policy is not done on basis of personal friendship.Who is this Jaswant singh to talk about our nuclear disarmament?
Those who talk of economic benefit are eluding themselves.America want to unarm India and others
exactly so that it can impose his exploitative(anglo-saxon and not western)economy.In that model of
anglo-saxon econmy lies this basic principle-Support your own profit(swadeshi) and take from other countries the
goods at minimum price.That is why they support theier own rotten ,viral infecxted beef(with no self of foreign meat);
not buy Japenese cars unless manufactured in their country. That is also why imf is very keen to devalue others currency so that these anglosaxpons country can buy foreign goods cheap and pay little for it.
Todays' world is full of economic ruins by those who kissed the poisoned hands of america and u.k.Remember India did have very healthy trade
balance with west before colonization not by selling much but by selling at high price.So signing nuclear treaty against Indian interest
would for ever enslave India to tose countries like usa and u.k. who have always been anti-india. Not that they like pakistan or for that matter any europen country
. This is all anglo-american plot to take over the world. Unless India and others realize it and act accordingly, they are in for long duration of slavery.
This not an alarmist scenerio, it is the real picture and Indians are kidding themselves if they
think india has a single friend unless herself.Do you so relationship to
even your cousins if they are powerless and thus poor? We ar not even their cousin.
People of India must demand refrendum on this secretive treacherous talk.
Does Atal bihari vajpaye not realize that by self freezing on nuclear test and annoncement of willingness to sign a treaty(on which Idias' opinion was not sought) He is falling into hands of anglosaxon race(not western)? That is how that shopkeepers race works. It first spreads a wide net then tightens it. Look at gulf war thing. At the first resolution against Irak if amerca had played hand open by saying that it would still be bullying Irak 8 years after gulf war would it have got the u.n. vote then in 90? heir modus operandi is to dis arm the other countries and put them in debt so that america and england can rule unopposed and can insult and bully other countries. Very few people realize that insulting and bullying others give an immense pleasure to these shopkeepers race-anglosaxons.That ,besides domination and economic exploitation is a major behaviour pathology in this low race.
Why is india talking to America about nuclear issue and missiles technology? And ,why this jaswant singh,a man of no following in the masses and a man of known pro-american leaning is talking to relatively junior minister of u.S.A. about the fate of India? India must have given strong signal,soon after Pokhran, that india has right to all the arms including nuclear to defend against enemies. And that She deserves as much deterence as anybody else.Instead iShe said that she be declared nuclear weopon state and the matter ends there. By doing that She lost the moral high posture of saying that c.t.b.t. should not be signed by any third world country. Then iIndia should have asked as to who is the u.s.a.,in what capacity, to be talked about on nuclear issue? A country which used the bomb has got no right to talk about giving lecture to others.But
India ,being a nation of cowards succembed immediately to american pressure and sais she would not do further tests and will sign eventually the discriminatory,and very inmical to thirld world, the rubbish treaty in the drawing of which India has no say. Then talk about economic sanctions.First it is not hurting, secondly sanction should be welcomed as a means to boycott American and british products . India knows that economic dependence ,and so called globalization is limiting her manoverability in soverinity but still persists in talkig of its virtue.India was once in globlization era-between 1750 and 1947. dURING THAT PERIOD iNDIA WAS REDUCED FROM ONE OF THE RICHEST 5 COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD TO ONE OF THE POOREST. The shopkeepers race called english grew opium in paddy field of India to export to China where the chinese had to part with tea and know how of crockery in place of forced opium addiction. The same thing is happening in eastern Europe where british companies are forceibly making addiction of cigarettes, alcohol and their rubbish products to hungry population who have to pay for these by doing prostitution and pornography. And ugly british man of even old age acan today hope to get a dozen of good looking girls in Easten Europe on small gifts and make them prostitute. This has all happened in last 10 years because these parasites,Americans and british- in other words shopkeepers anglosaxon race has got now no fear of any nation because others do not have military deterence. By having effective nuclear deterrence and missile technology-suffieint to strike at the heart of england and america India can have the any independent sovernity and exitence. It is not a choice, it is imperative.India does not even need to need that; having the capacity and willingness to srike would be deterence enough against the terror which Baghdad is facing now. In fact in order to deter america effectively, any nation can do it effectively withot ever the need of hitting america-it is sufficient to hit at the heart of England -to hurt it seriously; because America foreign and defence policy is for the benefit only of england and anglosaxon race3 and no body else not even so called ethnic white americans and black americams(majotity of population). If you do not belive it look at how much england has dared ,under american shadow, to bully other countries in last 10 yers and how much british economy is booming after destruction of Irak, and East asian countries. Also look at haw much british economy is depedent on protectionism(after preaching otherwise to other countries) so much so even rotten british beef was selling more than ever with no soption given on shelves of shops to buy beefs from other countries. Globaliztion is the propaganda word ,pushed by i.m.f.(created to help britain by america)to spread reemergence of british empire. The new world order will not be american empire it will be Anglo-american empire with major say of britain. Here India and other thirld world country are the stupid fools who had been there before but did not recognize the clear signal-loud and clear. India thinks and talks more of secularism than of protecting the state. And the state will be gone,within 10 to 15 years if things continue as the Indian politicians are doing now. Then India will be officially declared a slave country and the muslims in India who have had priviledged position upto now, will be as much sufferer as the Hindoos who incidently would not mind slavery as they have never been ruling type.Therefore nnot only India need to not talk to america and britain(which really contrils american policy) but also must have the capacity and will,if need be, to strike at the heart of these two enemie countries. Only does not need to be agressor but must have capacity and desire to srike against aggression.
For all those who talk of globalization and protection of intellectual property right, a small news which was never in prominent place in any of english speaking papers or news but was very much reported in French media. In the last weeks of October 98 was reported in French papers that 4 different French members of European Parliament were going to raise the question of industrial espionage of some 100 each of French and German companies by england in collaboration with u.s.a. and other anglo-saxon countries like Autralia and new zealand. In other words they same countries who made a lot of hue and cry over Indias nuclear test and who are the ones pushing for intellectual property rights and globalization. Thier modus operandi? Checking all satellite bases communication(telephone, fax, internet,etc)with help of klistening devices in anglosaxon countries and spying ao all the talks and messages all over world.This illegal activity is cordinated in england. European countries are loosins billions of dollars each years through leak of confidential techiqe and discovery. Apart form the fact that for tea,china, spices and plants this thief country england never paid anything for others' intellectual property right(why does royal doulton or british tea company not pay royalty to China?) this thief country england has done theft of German technology like urea making ang consequently ammunition making. In fact Standarsd oil company of america made a lot of theft of BAAs. a Germany company and many of the bombs which fell on Germany came from german tech. stolen by anglosaxon thieves england and america. That is not counting stolen from germans the tech. to make nuclear bomb and rockets. With these stolen technology has this anglo-american race been able to bully the rest of the world. And it wants to freeze the DIFFERENCE between it and other races in stone-for ever so that it can rule others unhindered. By the same mechanism it destroyed japanes and other Asian econmis. That is why India and others need very badly neclear deterence against enemies of the rest of the world.And the rest of world wants to break from ythier cluthes but has no courage because most of thirld world is governed by the likes of traitors like manmohan singh and Ahulliavala and spineless people like Jaswant Singh and Gujral and Atal bihari Vajpaye types
well i HAD WRITTEN ALLL THSE THINGS WAY BACK IN 1998 knwoing fully well that this manmohan singh is a traitor and american agetn and that atla bihari vjpayee was a drunkard triator too.
now chicken is coming to roost and indians STILL Are asleeep!
============
traitors.
18/1/2007 -look how the hindustan times, times of india and indian express tried to change the issue of shilpa shetty 's abuse in british reality show into coverage for india's so called racism of fair bride etc.why? because tyhse pa-pers have alyws been stooge =fo british interests-and now that britian is being exposed thse indian papers have shmelessly started blaming india for an indian to be bullied in britian! these elenglish ppaers have been expposed to be traitor to india.
Have you ever noticed that during last 17 years the ministry of defence protfolio was one which not many coveted because defence was not considered glamourous unlike finance and besides defence ministry was under thumb of PMO office not to proceed with tests and hardware acquitions because the then PM and today;s pM was afraid to hurt american sensiblity!
now the blame being put on PM is being diverted to all persons and organisations.
janaury,2007
Indian anglophile class -especially indian english language media -is a race of Coolies and traitors.
the same class of indians who are doing propaganda agasinty china today are the same people who forced rajiv gandhi in 1987 to make friendship with china(and recognise tibet as part of china) why-? because the usa had ben friend with china since 1984 and wanted india tobe friend too as opposed to russia.-therefore the indian parasite class foll=made the Indian foreign policy viz china not to suit india but to suit american interests-it is doing the same but in revere direction this time because their anglo-american masters want them to do so.the same indian elite class (for example the president of ranbaxy one MR. Singh,, chairman of FICCi at the time in 80s was vehemently opposing any defence increase or of of buying of defence equioments while asking for freidnship with china as desired by usa ain 80s). the same FICCi is making propaganda agasint DRDo and(with 6% of defence budget) and indian scintisits saying it has not kept the develpopmnet of innovations and kept the 50 yurs old mig 21 not in shape!.) These same indian traitors want india to buy 40 yrs old arms (like junk f16 and f-18) from america knowing fully well that it comes with a heavy conditions unlike almost condition free and better arms(new mig-35) from russia.-but then thse elites are agents of angnlo american interests -so no surprise here-it is high time that thse elites are killed or kicked out of india-these are allwais(iraqi traitor) of india.• Russia is already supplying India with the Sukhoi-30MKI, an advanced "fourth generation" warplane that consistently defeats its Western counterparts, such as the frontline US fighters, the F-15C and F-16. Versions of the Su-30 are also being sold to China, Venezuela, and Malaysia.
•
June 1998.
Congratulations to pakistan also for having exploded atomic bomb like India rightly did!
History is
full of nations much poorer, improving themselves first by making themselves militarily victorious
,by fair or foul means,over much richer and superior civilizations. That is exactly how
a race of pirate turned shopkeepers that is England and America made themselves rich.That is also why these pirate race of anglo-americans want to keep the ill gotten advantage by denying othersany means to get power or independence.That is the philosophy of nato.Who bothered about America before it stole Nuclear Technology from Germans? The other prominent makers of first atomic bomb were Italians and Hungarians,and thir country does not posses nuclear weaopn.From Americans who stole the technology did the british steal it.America also stole from the Germans Rocket and missiles technology.Now they want to make world astand still as it was in late '91s through self drafted this pact and that pact.Now they want others not to have the same technology. In the same way the british stole Tea production technology , china making tech and what not from China.How much the british tea companies and british china making ones like royal daulton paying royalty to China?none!But they want others to pay for rubbish tech of '60s retrospectivelly!! In fact even France is fed up with this cancerous anglo-american push to sell,indtead of much better Fernch food,rather rubbish tasteless food of anglo-saxons processed food industy which pushes for rotten and infected food like british beef. India should have sided with France and China to push for common interests.But India chose,under pressure from Anglophile english paper reading minority,to succumb to Low quality rubbish anglo-american products. And Pakistan
understands this duplicity and is not afraid to disturb that cosy arrangement of these anglo-american shopkeepers.
As for Bhutto saying that they will rather eat grass than not have bomb,
they have full filled that ambition when their prime minister asked pakistanis to
be prepared to even save in eating.Contrast that with response of Indian english knowing
class and their agents as represented by Indian english papers whose only worry
was that so called liberalization does not get stuck off.In fact Indian
atomic arsenal is necessary so that a country like america(whose infra-structure
know how and technology is much inferior to that of Germany,France and Italy) does not force
India(as it has been doing for some time) to accept third grade tech, and rubbish so called consumer goods .And here there are these english papers in India who were urging andia to give quick and special rebates
to americans .Those very americans who have always and will always act against India
and Indian interests.In fact America and britain(who really governs american foreing ,defence and economic policy)will always support pakisatan not be4cause they love pakis,on the contraire,but because for them pakisatan is an ideal means to poke and put a thorn on the body of India. These english papers and all cheap things that
they represent talk of India doing all those things that is already known to be agenda of american and british for India.It is no surprise.
The english media and so called westernized Indians are the voluntary (and sometimes paid) agents of foreign interests.They do not represent western interest either : they represent anglo-american interests which is an interest
of exploitation and by the sopkeepers race(anglo-americans) with not a single
drop of culture or taste. And one of these english papers was saying,when camparing India with pakistan than India has a large number of english speaking population(as if that was a positive thing even if it were true!) forgetting to add that
despite that those countries who consider themselves english speaking(and they do not include in that anyone but their own shopkeepers race of anglo-saxons)never at anytime have given value to Indians while always giving all help to (less english speaking!) Pakistan. Only thing
is India lose out on translators who would have been recruited from amonst Hindi speaking peoples!.(most of indians).
In fact these english speaking countries consider these english speakingIndians as coolies-which in fact they are.And pakistanies have refused themselves to be relegated to the status of coolies.Because they have self respect which these english media peoples(in India) have not got.Ten years ago the president of Ficci,an industry organisation and darling of Indian english media had demanded of Govt. of Indiato reduce armed forces(at height of kashmir and Punjab insurrection) and give free reign to foreign firms.And that sort of demand became a reality when Manmohan singh became
finance minister and narsingh Rao succemed to american pressure to not
only not test atom bomb but also pack up Agni missiles programmes. All the things that a
foreign enemy country would have demanded and america di demand. It is no surprise .Because
Manmohan singh, narsingh rao and all english media (who supported that illegal minority govt.with out mandate to bring fundamental change in India's self reliability)-asll these creaures were and will
continue to be agents of foreign interests-paid or otherwise(resulting from their cooliness or in other words from their deep sense of inferiority complex).Thes creatures must be ferreted out from
political,economic and social power that they have misappropiated.In fact it would be better if these creatures
are sent to Pakistan who knows how to treat such sort of traitors. A govt. first duty is to protect her citizens from external and internal danger. These elites oppose that. At the same time naturally
these parasitic elites also oppose the main obligation of a citizen to the govt.-that is to give taxes.In fact only by the right of taking taxes is the govt.recognignized.If India has 200 millions of middle class,as these english indian media always talk about,then where is the corresponding income tax revenue to the Govt. of India?But these english reading population is the biggest tax evader any where in the world.
But What the Prime minister Mr. Bajpaye does? He ,in stead of attacking previous congress govt. and Janta Dal govt.(whose Gujral and Mulayam singh are disgrace to India having created nearly a revolt
in Indian Army)-He becomes apologtic and agrees to put self memoratorium. Instead of testing much bigger Hydrogen momb of such magnitude that 2 or 3 of them would be sufficient to destroy whole of pakistan,He
simply backs down on western pressure and pressure from western agents like english media in india and pressure from those peoples whose vote bank is peoples of dubious loyalty. Ofcourse that big hydrogen bomb would
be neede ,noyt to be used but to provide deterrence_that is the purpose of atomic weopon.But this Prime minister is
so much eager to please foriegn anglo-american countries(true enemiy of India) that he adrres Parliament not in his language but in english.That is why in recent rally of child labourers (children of 4 to 14 yers)-who could not even get primary education-
was addressed by the leaders in India in english.That is how much India has become a nation
of coolies and hangers on rather than develop any leader ship quality with confidence. And that is why george Fernances-not a friend of america-started making China a villain in the hope of appeasing America-number one enemy of India. Wht Gerge should have said,and what he has realized too late,
is that if others can keep nuclear missiles then so can India.And matter ends there.BUt no. he had
to appease real enemy of India-which are America and England-by annoying an asian super power.
Now what is the solution after this mess up.? First India has to devewlop long range nuclear missiles
and nuclear submarine ,able to attack America,so that India can deal with all sorts of challenge and not repeat
blackmail of Irak by anglo-american counties. And it has to rely on Herself.Give less social or economic position
to english lovers. Secondly India has to deveop bigger Hydrogen bomb-The previos test cdone in one go are not enough.Pakistan does not care about others's opinion; India also needs confidence.
Thirdly India should agree to hand over Kashmir(which is gone within 10 years anyway) with
one provisio-full tranfer of muslim Population from India to kashmir and pakistan of those who are co-religionists of pakistan but living in India.(after all that is the whole rationale of pakistan and seperate kashmir from muslim point of view -is it not?)
That will cut the bottom of so called secularists-who must also be sent forcibly to Pakistan and they willpreach secularism to pakistanies. As for the likes of Manmohan singh,Narsingha rao,Mulayamsingh yadavand their kinds-They must be beaten to death by a lynching mob so that in future nobody(and especialyy english lovers) will
ever dare to do so much harm to India.
real america --a must read.(and india has no place in that except as a slave country)!
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11470
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11470
"
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comments?
August 20, 2007
The Outer Limits
The War Party's wackos are indicative of a trend
by Justin Raimondo
Every movement has its wackos, its "extremists," who take the original premise of an idea to its furthest, kookiest application. Usually they are harmless, due to their small numbers and the obvious nuttiness of their ideas. In times of crisis, however, when people are looking for simple answers – and, above all, safety – these ideological entrepreneurs of the fringe have the potential to make many more sales than usual. And then, watch out…
I draw your attention to this phenomenon because we very rarely get a glimpse of the pure, undiluted craziness of the War Party. Observed through the veil of euphemism, doubletalk, and outright lies, their bombast always falls short of the full-tilt moonbattiness that we can see, quite clearly, lighting up their eyes. When the president's men talk about the "unitary presidency," when the editor of National Review "jokes" about nuking Mecca, when the more unhinged neocons darkly imply that critics of the war and the Dear Leader should be jailed, they always qualify it, mask it, and sweeten the bitter pill of what Lew Rockwell calls "red-state fascism." But sometimes they let the mask slip…
One such very instructive instance was the publication of an article by the Family Security Foundation – a neocon propaganda outfit associated with the well-known Center for Security Policy – written by one Philip Atkinson, entitled "Conquering the Drawbacks of Democracy," which bemoans the fact that Bush didn't take "the wisest course" in Iraq, which "would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead."
This statement, alone, should be enough to make the gauge in our crazy-ometer go, uh, crazy, but Atkinson is just getting started. The problem, says this self-proclaimed "philosopher," is that Democracy (he insists on capitalizing the word) is a fatally flawed system, because it elevates the "popular" policy over the "wise" course, i.e., nuking Iraq. Ah, but there is a solution to Bush's conundrum…
According to Atkinson, Bush can follow in the supposed footsteps of Julius Caesar "by ordering his army to empty Iraq of Arabs and repopulate the country with Americans." Atkinson seems to be laboring under the delusion that the Roman caesar committed genocide in Gaul, although where he gets this is beyond me, but that is neither here nor there. The punch line of what one might have suspected is an extended joke is this:
"He could then follow Caesar's example and use his newfound popularity with the military to wield military power to become the first permanent president of America, and end the civil chaos caused by the continually squabbling Congress and the out-of-control Supreme Court."
Oh, but why stop there? This is the mark of the true nutball, who cannot avoid the "logic" of his craziness and must follow it wherever it leads:
"President Bush can fail in his duty to himself, his country, and his God, by becoming 'ex-president' Bush or he can become 'President-for-Life' Bush: the conqueror of Iraq, who brings sense to the Congress and sanity to the Supreme Court. Then who would be able to stop Bush from emulating Augustus Caesar and becoming ruler of the world? For only an America united under one ruler has the power to save humanity from the threat of a new Dark Age wrought by terrorists armed with nuclear weapons."
Notice the rationalization, coming in at the end: our "president-for-life" must seize total power because of a potentially overwhelming threat, one that requires the suspension of the normal rules and customs of a liberal society and imposes its own ruthless logic on our institutions. We find ourselves transformed, quite beyond our power to stop it, from a republic into an empire: the choice, in effect, has already been made for us. That is, unless we want to commit suicide, which is supposedly the only alternative to hailing Bush as the ancient Romans once hailed Caesar. As Atkinson explains:
"The simple truth that modern weapons now mean a nation must practice genocide or commit suicide. Israel provides the perfect example. If the Israelis do not raze Iran, the Iranians will fulfill their boast and wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Yet Israel is not popular, and so is denied permission to defend itself."
What "modernity" means to Atkinson and at least some of his fellow neocons is that technological advances have given us permission to commit genocide. It apparently also means we must revert to the absolutism of the ancients.
Now, a lot of crazy sh*t gets posted on the Internet every single day, and to take even half of it seriously would be a major time-waster, but Atkinson's brand of kookiness deserves to be noted on account of the organization that sponsored it, published it, and then quickly pulled the piece off its Web site when an uproar ensued. The group is the Family Security Foundation, which runs the Family Security Matters Web site, and whose head honcho, Carol Taber, is touted as a "security expert" by Fox News.
Taber was trotted out during the last presidential election as the living embodiment of a new voter demographic, the "security moms," whose only thought is the safety and security of their children and whose fear of terrorism leads them to support every jot and tittle of Bush's war-crazed foreign policy – especially the war in Iraq.
The group's Web site, which gave blogger/policy wonk Steve Clemons "the over-the-top creeps," also features such neocon standbys as Michelle "Intern All Muslims" Malkin, terrorism "expert" Steve Emerson, and Ben Shapiro, among many others. The Family Security Foundation's board of directors is a veritable who's who of third-and-fourth level neocon shills, with a few first-tier types, such as Frank Gaffney, standing out. Indeed, the whole Family Security Matters operation is described by the liberal watchdog group Media Matters as a "front group" for Gaffney's Center for Security Policy (CSP), the hardest of the hard-line neocon propaganda outfits. Media Matters notes that the two groups shared a phone line: calls to FSM were answered by CSP. (The number has since been changed.)
Aside from longtime head honcho Gaffney, CSP members and supporters include Richard Perle, former CIA chief R. James "World War IV" Woolsey, current Deputy National Security Adviser Jack Dyer Crouch II, former undersecretary for defense policy Douglas J. Feith, and former secretary of the U.S. Air Force James G. Roche. CSP is funded to the tune of millions of dollars per year by the big neocon foundations and the "defense" industry. Gaffney's group is the veritable voice of the military-industrial complex.
More than that, however, the link between the two groups is ideological, as well as a matter of cross-pollinated boards of directors and "advisers" (Gaffney and James T. DeGraffenreid serve as CSP officials and advisers to FSM). CSP pushes the same propaganda of fear that underlies Carol Taber's "security moms" pitch.
In Philip Atkinson's ravings, we have the pure distillation of the politics of fear that have been given ample expression by this president and his media Praetorian Guard. The only difference is that Atkinson comes out of the closet, so to speak, and plainly says what the others strongly imply: that the only good Arab is a dead Arab, that President Bush ought to silence his opponents at gunpoint, and that any and all opposition to this administration's "wise" policies is not only "treason" – it's "suicide."
We must ditch our old republic and adopt an authoritarian mode of government; we must invade, conquer, and relentlessly destroy the Arab world; Israel's interests in the Middle East and ours are identical. Where have we heard all this before?
In fairness, Atkinson's article was pulled by the FSM staff, but one has to wonder why: was it because Atkinson was too honest and plainspoken in detailing the neocon program for America?
Taber and her fellow "security moms" are seemingly complacent in their belief that Americans – especially women – will gladly surrender their liberty for a modicum of "security." If I were them, however, I wouldn't bet on it: the first hint that Clueless George is about to declare himself "president-for-life" would have the American people up in arms, with women – whom I doubt want their children to grow up under a dictatorship – taking the lead.
The Family Security Matters crowd is at the outer limits of neocon kookery, but, I submit, they are indicative of an emerging trend: as the War Party suffers more losses, it tends to get a little crazy, and this outburst isn't an isolated one by any means. More and more, we'll be seeing the mask slip, little by little, until the true faces of the cretins who want to destroy our republic are revealed in all their ugliness. ""
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